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Just a heads up for Amazon, Bricklink, Brickowl & Ebay sellers selling to Australia

VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
If the current talk of scrapping the AU$1,000 tax-free threshold for overseas purchases goes a head, you may have to register with the Australian Tax Office & charge the 10% GST for purchases by Australian customers from 1st of July 2017. At this time, the plan is only for businesses & individuals earning over AU$75,000 per financial year will be required to do this, but there has been some noise that they may lower this amount to as low as AU$1,000 (with current exchange rates; US$732, UK£466, EU€643).

Comments

  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    edited August 2015
    While I am unhappy with the plan to remove the tax-free threshold (who wouldn't be), my bigger concern is the fact that our government is intending to try to make people in other countries tax collectors for our government, which may make many overseas sellers reluctant to sell to Australia. As I purchase from the four sites I mentioned in the title, this could potentially reduce my purchasing option on these sites, which is my bigger issue with this idea put forward. I would suggest that those unhappy with the idea of having to be a tax collector for a foreign country, to voice their concerns in writing or email to the Australian Government, rather than cut out selling to Australians.
  • AleyditaAleydita BelgiumPosts: 494
    I'd love to know how they'd enforce this. It would be very difficult for a company with no footprint and no assets in Australia to be forced to comply with such legislation. Not impossible for sure, but there'd need to be an agreement in place for the tax authorities of the seller's country to co-operate and police such rules, as all EU tax authorities currently do for each other.
    VorpalRyu
  • graphitegraphite USPosts: 3,173
    Yeah I'd be interested to know how they plan this to work.  Enforcement would take more resources than just charging the recipient like they do in other countries. 
    VorpalRyu
  • They'll have to charge duty on entry. Can you imagine trying to track down a Chinese ebayer and asking them to register for GST!!!!
  • drdavewatforddrdavewatford Hertfordshire, UKPosts: 5,901
    CHERUBboy said:
    Can you imagine trying to track down a Chinese ebayer and asking them to register for GST!!!!
    Quite - it's absurd!
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    Well, this is another enlightened policy from the Abbott Government. I'm sure its our karma for laughing about George W... :wink: 
  • graphitegraphite USPosts: 3,173
    ^ No, even karma was laughing at GW.
    drdavewatfordVorpalRyuGoldchainssnowhitieAmanda1983
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409
    Aleydita said:
    I'd love to know how they'd enforce this. It would be very difficult for a company with no footprint and no assets in Australia to be forced to comply with such legislation. Not impossible for sure, but there'd need to be an agreement in place for the tax authorities of the seller's country to co-operate and police such rules, as all EU tax authorities currently do for each other.
    Governments make many laws that are not enforceable.  That doesn't stop them from trying anyway.

    The reality is that larger companies are likely to comply due to being a larger target and wanting the option to do business in the future in various places.  It will of course do nothing for someone selling $10K a year on eBay.
    VorpalRyu
  • graphitegraphite USPosts: 3,173
  • BastaBasta Australia Posts: 1,238
    edited August 2015
    Currently Amazon and a few other large OS stores collect the GST if you order over the current $1000 threshold. At lest with Amazon they appear only to charge the 10%, although you get charged this on the shipping component too.

    For those business that don't charge GST our local customs/clearance house will whack the GST on, plus some duty and then a fee. I haven't ordered anything over $1000 but from what I hear you pay 10% plus around $75. 

    Moving foraward the same will occur IMO. If we believe our politicians we will see the threshold removed completely, so even a $1 order will be subject to GST.

    So if I do a $50 BL order with an OS seller and they charge me no GST. When it arrives in Australia it will get held up and I'll get contacted saying I owe $5 + a bit extra + a fee before my item is released for delivery.

    The problem will be the fee, I can't see it being percentage based. It will be a minimum fee, so a $50 order will have something like a $15+ Fee added which means there will be no point making low value OS orders anymore.


  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    Just emailed the dis-honourable member of Parliment responsible for this stupidity, Mr Joe Hockey & expressed my displeasure.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Posts: 5,302
    @Basta which is exactly how it happens in the UK, so you end up with a £2 tax plus £8 fee. Where as if the seller pays the tax in advance, no fee.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409
    Basta said:
    So if I do a $50 BL order with an OS seller and they charge me no GST. When it arrives in Australia it will get held up and I'll get contacted saying I owe $5 + a bit extra + a fee before my item is released for delivery.

    What is so sad about that is I can't imagine the cost to collect it in that fashion is less than the $5 fee.

    Or perhaps it is, who can say...  but it seems to me like a lot of labor and time for someone who has to be paid to collect it, only to collect what amounts to pocket change.

    Here in the US, legally sales on items at flea markets, garage sales, and even lemonaid stands are subject to tax, but no reasonable person expects that tax to be collected or paid, nor do we want to pay IRS tax collectors to try and enforce it.  The cost of enforcement often exceeds anything you'd get and if you came down like an iron fist, you'd likely just end the commerce rather than collect anything.

    For what it is worth, if you sell $1,000 worth of LEGO sets for a profit in the US, to US customers, you ALSO owe taxes on that money (or the profit part anyway), and you must report that income to the IRS.  That is what the law says.  This being said, is it reasonable for someone to do that on $1,000 in sales of which maybe a few hundred is profit?  I say no (but I'm not a lawyer or CPA, so don't listen to me!).

    For the record, I DO report my income, I'm way beyond the $20k reporting limits, so both PayPal and Amazon issue me a 1099-K tax form every year, but then I run a full time business, so I file and pay business taxes.  If you sell $1K as a hobby, I don't personally care if you do (I honestly don't think that is a productive use of your time for the amount involved).

    Just my opinion.  :)
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Posts: 424
    edited August 2015
    The primary purpose of imposing GST on Internet sales below 1k isn't because the government feels as though it's missing out Collecting an extra 10% on the millions of items brought into the country each year via OS internet sales - the Govetnment  is well aware that the whole scheme will be lucky to actually break even.  Why the Government is doing it is to placate a retail business and union sector that aren't able (or at least claiming they're not)  to compete on a head to head basis with  overseas competitors.  It will inevitably create a tiny increase in domestic sales (which unions, business and Govegnment will call a 'win' for the country and average citizen, end up costing more money to run than it collects and (after the retail sector slowly eats up the tiny margin gain in direct profits); the business leaders and unions will inevitably find the next axe to grind over their inability to compete...
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    @MAGNINOMINISUMBRA, reality is, its Abbott trying make online purchasing from foreign countries so cost prohibitive that no-one will sell to private individuals in Australia &/or so cost prohibitive to us, that we might as well buy locally. Of course should we become blacklisted by the majority of online sellers abroad, we could see a return to the days of paying AU$35 or more for a CD, etc, etc... Online purchasing forced local retailers to drop their prices, if we lose that, they will likely punish us for the years they missed out on the money.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409
    The primary purpose of imposing GST on Internet sales below 1k isn't because the government feels as though it's missing out Collecting an extra 10% on the millions of items brought into the country each year via OS internet sales - the Govetnment  is well aware that the whole scheme will be lucky to actually break even.  Why the Government is doing it is to placate a retail business and union sector that aren't able (or at least claiming they're not)  to compete on a head to head basis with  overseas competitors.  It will inevitably create a tiny increase in domestic sales (which unions, business and Govegnment will call a 'win' for the country and average citizen, end up costing more money to run than it collects and (after the retail sector slowly eats up the tiny margin gain in direct profits); the business leaders and unions will inevitably find the next axe to grind over their inability to compete...
    The question of course becomes...  why is everything so expensive there...

    I've been to Australia, I think it is a beautiful country, but lord is everything expensive there...  My wife wants to move there (she is from Brisbane), and I've seriously looked into it...  but the price...  sheesh, it is just insane...

    Lovely people however...
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    @LegoFanTexas & yet according to someone on my Facebook, this is their response to my post:

    "All is not as it seems. Overseas operators have been undercutting Australian operators and running them out of business. Not only that, but they are taking your money off shore. Not only that they are getting away with not paying any tax.

    That's strike one - two - and three. Think what you will of Joe Hockey but think again about our local producers and the uneven playing field they now have slightly levelled for them."
    xiahna
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409
    VorpalRyu said:
    @LegoFanTexas & yet according to someone on my Facebook, this is their response to my post:

    "All is not as it seems. Overseas operators have been undercutting Australian operators and running them out of business. Not only that, but they are taking your money off shore. Not only that they are getting away with not paying any tax.

    That's strike one - two - and three. Think what you will of Joe Hockey but think again about our local producers and the uneven playing field they now have slightly levelled for them."
    Sure, I can understand that...  but that doesn't really answer the question...  Why do they never the playing field leveled in the first place?  Why are the local producers unable to compete?

    Part of it, I suspect, is that it is expensive to do business in Australia.  Min wages are expensive there, taxes are higher than elsewhere, and there is no economy of scale due to the small population relative to the size of the country.

    I have not studied it in detail, so don't ask me to get any more specific than that, but the reality is that stuff is just expensive there, and the question as to why might be worth asking.

    If it somehow makes sense for someone to buy LEGO overseas and have it shipped to Australia, then perhaps the local producers are either making massive profits, or are unable to compete on a level playing field.  If they are not, why is that?
  • VenunderVenunder Nottingham, UK.Posts: 1,974
    edited August 2015
    I am reading this and thinking wtf. 
    This is all just ridiculous. 
    How can any government think that £500 of lego or anything, is undercutting a local producer? It certainly is not going to force any local business to close down.
    Just One tourist probably brings that much business and money back to Australia.
    But forcing up the local prices for everything with increased taxes is more likely to lose Australia those Tourists.
    This is the product of some stupid bean counter somewhere whose wages probably cost 10 times what his figures say the government could get back in taxes.

    Here is the answer. Sack the bean counter. Then you don't have to collect the tax.

    Edit:
    Or you could invite TLG to open a factory in Australia, have them employ more Australians and then sell direct to Australians. :)

     


    VorpalRyukiki180703
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Posts: 5,302
    Its not about lego, its all imports. Two factories produce the exact same thing, one is in Aus and one in lets say Singapore. When joe retailer singapore sells the item to someone is Aus they don't have to pay any sales tax on it. When joe retailer Australia sells it they do. When shipping is relatively cheap, there's almost no way that local retailers can compete, in turn manufacturers can't compete. So instead of  all the value of the product going to people through wages, suppliers and profit in Aus, they go to a different country. At the same time the balance of trade reduces causing various other economic problems.

    It may well be that due to lower wages, overheads etc that there is no way that local companies can compete with imported goods anyway, but its crazy to effectively subsidise their foreign business by not levying the same sales tax on import as local retailers, and down the supply chain manufacturers, are faced with.

    to worry that you're lego is now going to cost more, because its now paying the appropriate tax is incredibly short sighted. 

    of course, it doesn't address LFTs point about why its so expensive. wages are generally higher over there, so the people i know that have moved there certainly haven't faced any financial problems compared to the UK at least. my brother and brother in law both moved there.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Posts: 5,302
    If it somehow makes sense for someone to buy LEGO overseas and have it shipped to Australia, then perhaps the local producers are either making massive profits, or are unable to compete on a level playing field.  If they are not, why is that?
    But the first issue is it isn't a level playing field yet as the importers don't pay the 10% sales tax. Once they do then it will be a level playing field although then, as you suspect and i agree, they probably still won't be able to compete. It will be closer though and a lot of the marginals will fall out. 
  • AleyditaAleydita BelgiumPosts: 494
    Why don't they just implement Import Duty like other nations rather than trying to force overseas retailers to comply with new rules that most will simply ignore? Or am I missing something?
    drdavewatford
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Posts: 5,302
    It doesn't seem any different to most other nations. Foreign companies can sign up so that import tax is paid upfront so no admin costs are applied on arrival. If your seller doesn't pay the fees upfront then the parcel will be held up, the customer will have to pay the tax and an admin fee. Its just like the UK and for example importing goods from the US TRU store. 
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    In essence, the Liberal Party is doing the whole registration thing to dissuade overseas sellers from selling to Australia. When online purchasing became viable for people in Australia, pretty much within months CDs fell from around AU$35 to AU$15-20. Without serious competition from overseas markets, we'll probably see AU$35+ for CDs, within 6 to 12 months, other markets where buying from overseas is no longer possible, this sort of thing has already happened.

    As for how the removal of the Tax-free threshold will affect us directly, if Customs has to handle parcels for tax purposes, there are Customs handling fees, which start at around AU$50 approximately & can go as high as AU$300 for small items. Now, I don't know what Lego classifies as, so I am assuming I'll only be slugged AU$50 per parcel. That means every Bricklink order I make I will be charged AU$50, then they apply the 10% GST. Of course once Customs has to handle every package that goes through their warehouses, that fee will rise, my mum mentioned it was AU$30, up until a few years ago when several items were added to their required inspections list, the excuse given, the extra workloads.

    I would buy my parts locally, but what the speciality stores that sell Lego parts charge is insane. Lightsaber hilts, just plain bley or black on Bricklink, can be gotten for what works out to less that AU$0.05, but the cheapest of the local stores wants AU$1.50. Likewise, for the #30272 A-Wing polybag, these stores are charging AU$16 or more, while on Bricklink, there are a few sellers selling for what works out to AU$4.50.
    xiahna
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409
    Its not about lego, its all imports. Two factories produce the exact same thing, one is in Aus and one in lets say Singapore. When joe retailer singapore sells the item to someone is Aus they don't have to pay any sales tax on it. When joe retailer Australia sells it they do. When shipping is relatively cheap, there's almost no way that local retailers can compete, in turn manufacturers can't compete. So instead of  all the value of the product going to people through wages, suppliers and profit in Aus, they go to a different country. At the same time the balance of trade reduces causing various other economic problems.

    It may well be that due to lower wages, overheads etc that there is no way that local companies can compete with imported goods anyway, but its crazy to effectively subsidise their foreign business by not levying the same sales tax on import as local retailers, and down the supply chain manufacturers, are faced with.

    to worry that you're lego is now going to cost more, because its now paying the appropriate tax is incredibly short sighted. 

    of course, it doesn't address LFTs point about why its so expensive. wages are generally higher over there, so the people i know that have moved there certainly haven't faced any financial problems compared to the UK at least. my brother and brother in law both moved there.
    GST in Australia on LEGO is 10%, if my reading is correct (if that is wrong, please correct me).

    I suspect people are not buying LEGO overseas because it is 10% cheaper, rather because it is 50% cheaper.  GST is part of it, but I would imagine that GST would be easier to charge to the buyer, when the LEGO set comes into the country, than to the overseas seller.

    So if GST is added, then the overseas LEGO becomes 40% cheaper instead of 50% cheaper.  That isn't going to change much, is it?

    ---

    I would also question if the local retailers are really charging so much, or is it LEGO itself that charges more to the retailers.

    In otherwords, it is quite possible that the retailers in Australia are paying more for the LEGO than retailers in the US are, in which case, the fault isn't with the local companies in Australia, it might be the fault of TLG.

    Could Australia pass a law saying that large companies cannot sell items to retailers in Australia for more than they sell them to retailers in the US?  If TLG had to sell to Australian retailers for the same wholesale price as US retailers, perhaps that solves the problem.

    Of course, there are probably ways around that and perhaps TLG would just stop selling directly to Australia, so maybe that is a bad idea.

    All I know is that Australians seem to get the short end on prices.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409

    If it somehow makes sense for someone to buy LEGO overseas and have it shipped to Australia, then perhaps the local producers are either making massive profits, or are unable to compete on a level playing field.  If they are not, why is that?
    But the first issue is it isn't a level playing field yet as the importers don't pay the 10% sales tax. Once they do then it will be a level playing field although then, as you suspect and i agree, they probably still won't be able to compete. It will be closer though and a lot of the marginals will fall out. 
    That is a fair point, I don't have any issue with having a level playing field for taxes.

    I would question if it makes sense to try and collect GST from thousands of overseas sellers, many of whom have no interest in registering to collect it, vs simply taxing the imports when they come in.

    Of course you do have sellers who lie on customs forms, mark items as gifts, mark items for less than their real value, etc.  Of course, that happens, but then people sell stuff at flea markets all the time and don't collect any taxes.

    You'll probably get larger sellers to do it, such as Toys R US and Amazon, but the thousands of sellers on eBay?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409
    Well that was interesting...  After thinking about this some more, I decided to do some research...

    http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay

    Min wage in Australia is more than double that in the US.  Worse, it varies from industry to industry with something called "Awards".

    http://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/general-retail-industry-award-ma000004-pay-guide.pdf.aspx

    That is the current Retail Industry Award guide.

    Short version:  Full time adults are to be paid $18.99 per hour for normal working hours, $23.74 after 6pm or Saturday, and $37.98 on Sunday.

    In addition to that, a whole slew of additional awards and pay are owed, including 4 weeks of paid leave a year, 9.5% additional pay to Superannuation (their version of Social Security), and so on.

    So the base cost to an employer for a basic retail employee has a direct cost of at least $22.25 an hour for weekday work until 6pm, not including any admin or overhead costs (which there are always some).  That $22.25 is the $18.99 plus the cost of 4 weeks paid leave plus the superannuation payments.

    Compare that to $7.25/hr (effective $7.80 including employer paid FICA taxes) in the US.

    $22.25 vs $7.80 /hr

    I would imagine there are other costs of doing business that a short search didn't find, and that might explain more of the reasons for the price differences.

    ---

    If anyone who actually lives and works in Australia would like to comment on the above, either the accuracy or lack of, please do so.  I'm simply looking up and quoting web sites, I'm not an expert on it.

    Also, I would be curious to know what pay really is there.  Is min wage normal to be paid, or do people get more than that?  In the US, it is actually rare that someone gets $7.25/hr these days, most people in retail are closer to $9/hr.
    MasterBeefy
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Posts: 5,302
    @LegoFanTexas totally agree, the 10% sales tax wont make a difference, and equally wont in itself make CDs/DVDs more than double in price. I imagine the Aus govt isn't planning on collecting tax from all those little sellers, but its a service available to them because buyers won't want to be hit with the admin fees. its exactly the same policy as we have here in the uk, but we have a 20% sales tax. 

    Whats interesting about the Aus wages and the expensive cost of living is that the net government debt is just 11% of GDP compared to i think 88% for the US and 82% for the UK. Perhaps the relatively cheap cost of living and the quality of life we have appears cheap because we're paying for it in ever increasing debt burden - either private or from the state.

    ps its good to have you back.
  • @LegoFanTexas Sitting in Brisbane typing this...you're entirely correct - wages here are predominantly higher here than our Northern Asian neighbours. Not only do we have a tiny population spread out across vast distances, we enjoyed a relatively protected market for a long time based on our tyranny of distance. This decision however is simply placating the retail sectors unions and to appeal to the average 'mug' voter. Interested to hear you thought Oz so expensive - got a friend over here from the Pacific North West at the moment and he's saying he cant believe how expensive services are here but also can't believe how cheap and abundant high quality food is. 
    Amanda1983
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    @LegoFanTexas, keep in mind that a good chunk of the people working in Australia these days are part-time or casual, meaning some are getting as little as 10-15 hours a week, at AU$22.25 for 15 hours, that comes to AU$333.75, before tax. The average weekly rent for a two bedroom house in Adelaide these days is AU$350, Melbourne, Sydney & Brisbane will be far higher. I was lucky while working as a Qualified Plumber for my parents to be getting AU$740 a week (averaging 35-40 hours a week). Most of the people I went to school with are lucky if they're on AU$500 a week, in the various jobs they're holding down & the Government wants to do away with penalty rates?
    MasterBeefyxiahnaAmanda1983
  • wayneggwaynegg Texas,USAPosts: 388
    How to enforce- One World Government
    VorpalRyukiki180703
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaPosts: 1,709
    edited August 2015
    Slight correction, the minimum processing fee for Customs handling in Australia is currently AU$40.20 (not AU$50.00, that is for a different, speciality items category), factoring in GST, that will add AU$44.22 to the cost of each parcel, not counting the GST on the parcel & shipping cost. I say this, because currently the fees are waived on items under the GST-Free Threshold & there has been indications that all parcels, with the removal of the threshold, will be subject to the fee.
    xiahnaAmanda1983
  • BastaBasta Australia Posts: 1,238
    @LegoFanTexas for the most part the minimum wage is paid for low skilled work, like cleaning etc. As for the award wages it can vary, when unions are involved wages can be higher depending on negotiations and as a general rule which I assume is the same in the U.S. and probably every where the higher skilled you are the better position you are in to negotiate your salary.

    A lot of low skilled labour is "casual" work as @VorpalRyu mentioned, as a casual employee you get little of the benefits you mentioned, no sick or annual Leave for example and you can be let go at an hours notice. In stead of those benefits you normally get an extra 25% on top of your hourly rate.

    Back to the Lego and buying from OS, make no mistake the reason this is comeing in is to appease the vocal and powerful retail sector. They have been jumping up and down about personal imports for years.

    The funny thing is that our dollar has had a bit of a dive over the last 1-2 years and now things form OS cost effectively 30%+ more than they did 2 years ago. Much less value buying from OS now.

    At 20% off (which is pretty easy to find and on exclusives too) most of our Lego sets are the same price or cheaper than the US price once exchange rates are taken into account. 



    Amanda1983
  • BastaBasta Australia Posts: 1,238
    edited August 2015
    Also all Lego sold in retail stores in Australian comes from "Lego Australia PTY Ltd" as far as I know they are their own company, i.e. not owned by TLG. They act as the Australian Distributor (and of course take thier cut). One thing that is interesting is that all customer service is handled by the UK or occasionly the US call centre, if you are missing a piece or what not the replacement gets sent from the EU, same thing if you order anything from S@H. So I assume Lego Australia offer retailer support being as they do SFA for the end customer.

    @VorpalRyu if it does end up costing that much extra on small $10-$200 BL orders I think a lot of OS sellers may see a big dropoff in AU sales and for some sellers this may not be insignificant.
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Posts: 2,343
    LEGO Australia Pty Ltd is 100% owned by LEGO Holding A/S, i.e. TLG.
  • BastaBasta Australia Posts: 1,238
    Thanks @TigerMoth, I have never bothered to look it up. I just made the assumption based on how hopeless Lego Australia seems to be.

    As I said I think they a are only there for retail support and have nothing really to do with the end consumer.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasPosts: 8,409
    Basta said:
    @LegoFanTexas for the most part the minimum wage is paid for low skilled work, like cleaning etc. As for the award wages it can vary, when unions are involved wages can be higher depending on negotiations and as a general rule which I assume is the same in the U.S. and probably every where the higher skilled you are the better position you are in to negotiate your salary.

    A lot of low skilled labour is "casual" work as @VorpalRyu mentioned, as a casual employee you get little of the benefits you mentioned, no sick or annual Leave for example and you can be let go at an hours notice. In stead of those benefits you normally get an extra 25% on top of your hourly rate.
    I'm curious...  So "casual" work is...  what, part timers in retail?  House cleaners?

    Could I start a business in Australia, say, selling online, and hire 2 or 3 "casual employees" and pay them, say, $12/hr?  Could I find anyone worth having to work at that rate?

    This is a serious question, not meant to be flip.  You end the above saying "get an extra 25% on top of your hourly rate", which implies to me 25% more than full time workers.

    Perhaps a better way to word the question is, "what total hourly rate do part time or casual workers really get in AUS?"

    I pay my part time and holiday help $12/hr, mostly because it gets me a better grade of people than $10/hr would, and $8/hr doesn't get me people who are worth having, IMHO.

    My single full time employee is paid a salary of $40k/year, plus benefits, but that is because that person has to be able to create listings on eBay, has to respond to customer e-mails, and has to handle the office while I'm on vacation.  It is more or less "office manager" pay without anyone to manage outside of Christmas.

    From looking at the info I can see online, it appears I'd have to pay $40K+ for basic employees and maybe double that for an office manager type employee.  Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding the situation?
  • BastaBasta Australia Posts: 1,238
    You would be up for at least $18.xx an hour, but probably $23. That said young people under 21 get less p/h. With the youngest (15y9m) getting around $10 p/h.

    A lot of industry's have award wages, which can be more than the minimum wage, you can see pay rates with this calculator http://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/FindYourAward

    Basicaly we have 3 main types of employment, Full Time, Part Time & Casual. The first two include sick leave (9 days p/y) & annual leave (4 weeks p/y) and is a permanent position with a number other entitlements including long service leave and redundancy provitions. Full time hours of work are generally 38-40 hours P/W where as part time is a set number of hours but generally less than 25 hour P/W. 

    Casuals get none of the above, you are basically employed on an hour by hour baises. In lieu of the above entitlements you normally get 25% on top of the minimum base rate for that particular job.

    A better explanation http://www.fairwork.gov.au/employee-entitlements/types-of-employees/casual-part-time-and-full-time/casual-employees

    As to what you would have to pay to get a good employee, I'm not too sure, but I'd imaging minimum wage would get you people to do your part time and holiday work without issue. Assuming you don't need someone to do your accounts or mange staff (ocasional supervisory roll is fine) I don't think you would need to pay double to get a good office manager, $60k or so.

    Finding good staff could be more of a challenge.
    Amanda1983
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAPosts: 4,017
    Explains why things are so expensive in AUS
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganPosts: 1,827
    Until 1992 the Australian LEGO license was owned by British LEGO Ltd. (Wrexham Wales), a subsidiary of Courtaulds, a UK textile and chemical maker since 1790.  Unfortunately (as is the case so often in recent years).... Courtauld's was broken into 2 companies  due to competition from Asia.

    While the name Courtaulds disappeared in the chemical merger with Akzo Nobel, the Courtaulds textile name remains as a division in Sara Lee. 

    But during the tumultuous 1990s Courtaulds sold TLG back the LEGO license, and dissolved British LEGO Ltd. (which had been making LEGO since 1960 for Britain and Ireland, and since 1962 for Australia).
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Posts: 2,343
    Sara Lee ditched their textile business, including Courtaulds, ten years ago. It's now owned by a Hong Kong clothing manufacturer.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganPosts: 1,827
    Gotta love how the Sara Lee chairman said that they "gave away" the company.... but had to keep the pension debt...
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Posts: 2,343
    They essentially sold the company to fund the pension deficit. It was good for Courtaulds, and Sara Lee got rid of a liability, which didn't fit the company, at no real cost. The mistake was buying Courtaulds, and actually fighting to buy it, a few years earlier.

    Of course, this is all the "wrong" bit of Courtaulds from a LEGO perspective.
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