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Is there a list of sets with redesigns? If not, could Brickset do that?

SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,392
I recently sold a 8097 Slave I (3rd edition) on Bricklink, but the deal was bogged down by the slight redesign in the set.

I never knew about the redesign until then, but found it quite interesting. Which got me wondering- what other sets have gotten redesigns like this once out the door? Are the all for structural reasons, or are some simply design reasons? Is there a list somewhere? If not, might this be a good tag or something to put in the notes on Brickset's inventory?
Bumblepantsricecakekiki180703ambrosius

Comments

  • BumblepantsBumblepants Sofia BG/Dallas TXMember Posts: 3,870
    That would be interesting for sure. I didn't know about that set. Wall-E was a big recent one and the Creator Space Shuttle was overhauled so much it got a new set number. The TMNT van thing got a pretty big redesign. Those are ones I recall offhand but  doubtless there are others.
    SprinkleOtterkiki180703ambrosius
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 4,151
    Seems seems more like something for a bricklist, which anyone could make. 
    LyichirOldfanambrosius
  • ricecakericecake Maryland, USAMember Posts: 716
  • DadsAFOLDadsAFOL USAMember Posts: 553
    There was also a big helicopter set that got pulled and redesigned a couple years ago
    SprinkleOtterambrosius
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,392
    Shib said:
    Seems seems more like something for a bricklist, which anyone could make. 
    Problem is, one person would have to maintain that. And as you can see here, noone here knows all the sets...
    ambrosius
  • PaperballparkPaperballpark UKMember Posts: 2,457
    Shib said:
    Seems seems more like something for a bricklist, which anyone could make. 
    Problem is, one person would have to maintain that. And as you can see here, noone here knows all the sets...
    Sounds like an ideal opportunity for someone sad to make themselves an expert in an underappreciated field! ;)
    Shibgmonkey76SprinkleOtterBumblepantsAdzbadboyambrosius
  • gmonkey76gmonkey76 ChicagoMember Posts: 718
    edited January 12
    @DadsAFOL The helicopter was #60010 fire helicopter form 2013. 
    ambrosius
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 1,646
    edited January 12
    the ant-man set too.
    legends, and of course the toy shop and death star
    gmonkey76ambrosius
  • OldfanOldfan Chicagoland, IL, USAMember Posts: 555
    For whomever attempts to make the bricklist:

    The classic Blacktron set Message Intercept Base #6987 had a redesign that I never knew about until after my dark ages ended.  I have a copy of the redesign insert instructions that apparently appeared with the later runs of the set (I bought mine when it first came out with the original design). 

    The nature of the changes involves the mechanism for opening and closing the roof; the connectors that control the movement changed a little bit.
    ambrosius
  • MattDawsonMattDawson Solihull, UKMember Posts: 898
    *feebly sighs and raises hand*

    I'll see what I can do when I get home :P
    snowhitieSprinkleOtterambrosius
  • MattsWhatMattsWhat Studley, UKMember Posts: 1,634
    The mini cooper creator expert got a new windscreen piece :)
    ambrosius
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,392
    @Huw Would it be possible to make a tag for this?
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Sofia BG/Dallas TXMember Posts: 3,870
    edited January 19
    Fauch said:
    the ant-man set too.
    legends, and of course the toy shop and death star
    The Toy Shop, Legends, and Death Star seem to be a slightly different category as they lived out their production lives normally and then were later reintroduced with new set numbers. Yes they got new parts or colors etc in some of those cases but they were labeled as new sets. That is not quite the same as a design flaw or part change mid-production run like Ant-Man or the others mentioned.
    SprinkleOttergmonkey76stluxambrosius
  • adiemcadiemc UKMember Posts: 362
    The VW Camper #10220-1 been tweaked since the original release I think.  My copy has 1334 pieces listed on the box whereas the picture on Brickset has 1332.
    SprinkleOtterambrosius
  • MattDawsonMattDawson Solihull, UKMember Posts: 898
    @adiemc

    Researching has found the difference is the 2 2x4 tiles used to improve the roof strength at the front. ^.^
    adiemcambrosius
  • GremerGremer The Commonwealth of VirginiaMember Posts: 77
    Fauch said:
    the ant-man set too.
    legends, and of course the toy shop and death star
    The Toy Shop, Legends, and Death Star seem to be a slightly different category as they lived out their production lives normally and then were later reintroduced with new set numbers. 
    I think the Death Star did get a change while it was still 10188. I think both Han figures got pupils, but I might be mistaken.
    ambrosius
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,022
    I recently sold a 8097 Slave I (3rd edition) on Bricklink, but the deal was bogged down by the slight redesign in the set.
    Can you tell me what the change was and if you can tell which one you have as I have a sealed one and would be interested to know what one I have.
    ambrosius
  • gmonkey76gmonkey76 ChicagoMember Posts: 718
    edited January 20
    @MattDawson the visual difference is either a DBG 1x2 brick with handle 30236, or a yellow 1x2 plate with handle 48336(bricklink numbers)behind the cockpit. I believe it had something to do with the front landing wheel not staying assembled with play.
    ambrosius
  • gmonkey76gmonkey76 ChicagoMember Posts: 718
  • ricecakericecake Maryland, USAMember Posts: 716
    If you are including redesigns that resulted in a new set number, then in the Legends line, #10021 USS Constellation had some tweaks from the original #398 USS Constellation. I bought a used #10021 but built it based on the #398 instructions since the #10021 instructions scan wasn't the best quality and a little hard to read, and here is what I remember being different.
    1. #398 included a 2x2 plate with holes in it for the string to pass through, but #10021 just had you leave a gap when stacking plates.
    2. #398 used window bricks, but #10021 used headlight bricks turned around backwards.
    Also, I wonder if these Bricklink lists might be helpful:
    ambrosius
  • starwars4everstarwars4ever The Forest Moon of EndorMember Posts: 330
    I thought that #4504 was redesigned with different minifigures. Maybe I'm wrong, but the Snowtrooper was varied with different additions.
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Sofia BG/Dallas TXMember Posts: 3,870
    Gremer said:
    Fauch said:
    the ant-man set too.
    legends, and of course the toy shop and death star
    The Toy Shop, Legends, and Death Star seem to be a slightly different category as they lived out their production lives normally and then were later reintroduced with new set numbers. 
    I think the Death Star did get a change while it was still 10188. I think both Han figures got pupils, but I might be mistaken.
    Which brings up another issue altogether. Is that just Lego replacing one part mold with a new variant of the same or a redesign? My Fire Brigade was one of the last produced as I snagged one right before EOL and the tool set it came with was the modern one with a tire iron instead of the old wheel of 6 tools you punch out of the circle which was listed in the directions. Another example, my Pet Shop came with the modern white skis without the old style hinge toes on them.
    gmonkey76ambrosius
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,022
    ^ There are also a few sets that came with sharks where some included an older version and some the newer one (like when they added gills or printed eyes).
    gmonkey76ambrosius
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,392
    If we start taking into account single-piece substitutions, we'd be here all decade...
    MattDawsonambrosius
  • MrShinyAndNewMrShinyAndNew Member Posts: 206
    Jango Fett's slave 1 was redesigned and a service pack issued to fix stability issues. http://brickset.com/sets/7153-1/Jango-Fett-s-Slave-I

    I recall reading about it online, emailing Lego support, and then one day receiving a handful of parts and a new instruction book in the mail. Lego doesn't advertise this sort of thing much so I bet there have been dozens of recalls over the years. It would be interesting to see what they changed; probably some fascinating lessons in what can go wrong in a model.
    ambrosius
  • MattDawsonMattDawson Solihull, UKMember Posts: 898
    edited January 20
    If we start taking into account single-piece substitutions, we'd be here all decade...
    I'm going to stipulate a few ground rules:
    1. Changes in mould or print (including changes causing new piece/item number) don't count. This would also cover minor changes e.g. adding pupils to an existing head design, or updating a head to a 'gap stud' from a 'solid stud'. 
    2. Sets released containing the same parts but different packaging or year of release won't be listed
    3. Sets where the design has been reworked due to parts change(s) WILL be included, e.g. #4563 redesign due to reduced cab cut-out 
    SprinkleOtterBumblepantssnowhitieobi_gstluxambrosius
  • TechnicNickTechnicNick Berkshire, UKMember Posts: 268
    #851 Tractor got a re-jigged hitch mechanism partway through it's life to give it a more positive action. IIRC #853 got a beefed up steering mechanism as well. They both came with additional instruction sheets to correct the originals.
    MattDawsonambrosius
  • StewedGiraffeStewedGiraffe United StatesMember Posts: 2
    #75101-1 First Order TIE Fighter got a redesign for the wings which added 16 pieces to it.
    SprinkleOtterambrosius
  • MattDawsonMattDawson Solihull, UKMember Posts: 898
    I'll add these when I get to a computer. I've been occupied with work, playing Overwatch and prepping for the Channel 4 lego show.
    TechnicNickPitfall69ambrosius
  • MattDawsonMattDawson Solihull, UKMember Posts: 898
    List updated, and I've also credited those who've informed me of the change (when it's not been common knowledge)
    ambrosius
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,392
    The list looks great. Now I want a few of these sets for their weirdness, though...
    ambrosius
  • TyresOFlahertyTyresOFlaherty USAMember Posts: 249
    edited March 2
    #75101-1 First Order TIE Fighter got a redesign for the wings which added 16 pieces to it.
    Hey, @StewedGiraffe, can you give me more information on this? I'd like to know which version I have. 

    Also, how do people figure out stuff like this? I assume Lego keeps it mostly under wraps unless eagle-eye people notice the changes?
    ambrosius
  • TyresOFlahertyTyresOFlaherty USAMember Posts: 249
    Another idea to possibly add to the database could be the option to receive notifications if a set that I have marked as owned has an update?

    That would be fantastic if, for example, I had #75101 marked as owned and then Brickset sent me an email and/or notification letting me know that TLG had a fix/update.

    @Huw, you could add this to your probably-very-short list of things to do, right? ;)
  • TyresOFlahertyTyresOFlaherty USAMember Posts: 249
    edited March 2
    Also @MattDawson, you are awesome for making that list, thanks!!!
    ambrosius
  • BinnekampBinnekamp jeffrey.binnekamp@live.nlMember Posts: 4
    I know of a few sets with redesigned sections. I probably encountered more, but these are the ones I can remember at the moment:

           7707-1 Striking venom
    Some owners of this set might remember their disappointment of finding out that their Meca One figure didn't have legs for this set. Even when it was advertised on the box!
    Other owners might remember it differently. Certain versions did include legs for the golden robot, amongst other things. The cannons that flank the 'neck' are replaced with grey pillars and the guns on the sides of the 'head' are built with ski-poles instead. After a quick search I found one such set here: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=387893. Compare with http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=209708

          6923-1 Particle ionizer
    This set has two different versions of the assembly of the rotor pin. The first version was static but was likely to pop off. Curiously, that version is required to build 6861-3 Secret M:tron Space Voyager.
    You can view the different assemblies here: http://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?I=6923-1#T=S&O={}

          8894-1 Piraka Stronghold
    My set had one of those leaflets that indicates that on the second floor of the main tower a stack of darkblue bricks behind the big pillars needs to be built differently. It was a change of 1x2x2s to 1x2s.

           7700-1 Stealth Hunter
    Not sure if this fits the criteria, but I remember encountering a stealth hunter where the front cannons (on the cockpit) were indicated as 6558 Pin 3L friction ridges lengthwise, and that the 32054 technic pin 3L friction ridges and stop is not used. Weird, as I think the latter solution is MORE likely to fall off the 1x2 plate with handles they are mounted on.





    ambrosius
  • BinnekampBinnekamp jeffrey.binnekamp@live.nlMember Posts: 4
    Also, set 10030-1 Imperial Star Destroyer.

    It used to be all old light grey parts. But in later runs many parts became light bluish grey. Substantial, very rare parts.
    The instructions also changed. At first it was all glued. Presumably because to peoples horror their instruction booklets couldn't handle their own volume, this was changed into ringbound later.

    Again, also not sure if this one fits the bill, but:

    4766-1 Graveyard Duel.

    The set is a weird case where FOUR versions apparently exist. You see, the minifigures' cloaks came as light bluish gray in some sets, and dark bluish grey in other (later?) releases. Which is strange as it already saw a short release. However, some sets had an oppaque GitD voldemort head whilst others had a GitD clear voldemort head. Bricklink lists four different voldemort figures. The deatheater (malfoy) figure also changed because of the cloak of course.
  • ambrosiusambrosius ChicagoMember Posts: 12
    Hi everybody! I thought there might be a discussion going on this subject. :)

    Ever since I stepped down from my role as an Inventories Admin at BrickLink (about a year ago now), this project was on a long list of things to do. A couple months ago I started to get serious about it and went through all the inventory and catalog notes on BrickLink, searching for "issues".

    I added that to a short list of examples I knew from memory, and poked around some more to come up with the list I have today, 75 sets:
    http://brickset.com/sets/list-18333

    So I saw the list by MattDawson a couple days ago and have offered him all the information. I've never created a bricklist before, so I'm still learning the ropes. I'd love to work together on it, as I am confident there is a TON of work still to do. I'm amazed that after having combed through all the sources I knew, that there are still sets on Matt's list I didn't find.

    One of the things I am most interested in doing is getting the alternate version scans online and available to the public. I can't speak for others in this regard, but for me it has been shockingly hard to get stuff uploaded to any of the big sites. If anyone knows how to get this done, please elaborate. I have a fair number of version scans I would love to share.

    In my list I have tried to include information on where to find scans. This information is still incomplete, as is a lot of other information. I was hoping to reach a higher level of completeness before making the list public, but I think it's best at this point to get it all out there.
    SprinkleOtterBumblepantsricecakeMaffyDsid3windrTyresOFlahertystluxMynatt
  • StewedGiraffeStewedGiraffe United StatesMember Posts: 2
    #75101-1 First Order TIE Fighter got a redesign for the wings which added 16 pieces to it.
    Hey, @StewedGiraffe, can you give me more information on this? I'd like to know which version I have. 

    Also, how do people figure out stuff like this? I assume Lego keeps it mostly under wraps unless eagle-eye people notice the changes?
    On the box for the updated version the parts count is 533. Old versions has 517. Or, if you don't have the box, there are 4 light bluish grey Slide shoe round 4x4 pieces on the inside of either wing. Also the Plate W. Bow 1x4x2/3 pieces in the updated version are dark bluish grey instead of white.

    I figured out the redesign because I was looking to buy it online and saw that there were versions that has 517 parts count and ones that had 533.



    ambrosius
  • TyresOFlahertyTyresOFlaherty USAMember Posts: 249
    @StewedGiraffe I should follow up on this, too. I contacted Lego Customer Service the other day, and they're sending me the updated pieces as well as updated instructions, the same way they did for my #21303 Wall•E set. Thanks again for pointing this out!

    @ambrosius Thank you for making that other list! I was poking around on BrickLink and it wasn't super obvious to me...how do I check alternate inventories? For example the #75101 First Order Tie Fighter on there only seems to have the original shipped version, not the one with updated pieces.
    ambrosius
  • ambrosiusambrosius ChicagoMember Posts: 12
    @TyresOFlaherty BrickLink inventories often do not reflect an alternate version, and the main reason is that no one has yet added the information. It seems that in the early days of BrickLink, alternate inventories were handled only via note on the catalog page. Whatever version of the set was more popular (or had been inventoried first) ended up on the inventory page, and that was that.

    However, in recent years, several of us have made a pointed effort to reflect different versions within the inventory itself, using the alternate part feature. Unfortunately the system was never designed to handle this and there are limitations to what can be done. There is at least one set (see #8654 ) where there are so many changes it would be next to impossible to reconcile them all within the current framework.

    For sets with enormous differences, we usually try to split the entry in the catalog, as was done with #79104. But there are downsides to this approach as well, including the need to see the distinctions clearly on the box cover and the problem of linking the new entries with other sites like Brickset.

    But the big obstacle remains that for every one of these many redesigns, somebody has to roll up their sleeves and file the change requests. This involves acquiring both versions of instructions, carefully plotting all the differences on a chart, figuring out the state of the current inventory (many are not in good shape due to the wrangling back and forth over the years between submitters with different versions), and finally pulling together enough evidence to get the changes approved.

    All of this is not easy, and often depends on the cooperation of several parties over a period of time. Typically, someone will get stuck on one aspect of the process and the issue will have to be taken up by one of a handful of people with experience in this specific type of inventory work.

    Regarding #75101, I'll send you a PM and we can try to get the ball rolling on that one.
    TyresOFlaherty
  • TyresOFlahertyTyresOFlaherty USAMember Posts: 249
    ambrosius said:
    Regarding #75101, I'll send you a PM and we can try to get the ball rolling on that one.
    Sounds great! I'm still waiting for the extra bricks and instructions, I'd be more than happy to share the differences in builds once I get them.
    ambrosius
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,022
    Does anyone know if 6497 Twisted Time Train was ever changed as brickset lists it as having 300 parts but I have one that says 296 pcs on the box?
    ambrosius
  • ambrosiusambrosius ChicagoMember Posts: 12
    @SMC It likely has to do with Lego's older policy that the minifig head was always attached to the torso when in a new set, and Lego counted both torso and head as only one piece. Later, they switched to shipping them separately and counting them separately, and this is how the current inventory database that Brickset feeds from is set up.

    So there are 4 minifigs in the set, so 300 minus 4 = 296. Not to say there couldn't be a redesign of some sort, though. There could be boxes with different part totals out there.

    SMC
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,022
    Thanks @ambrosius great answer. I just had a look and all 4 minifigs have their heads attached but the ghost has the shroud attached too so should it be 5 parts out?
    ambrosius
  • RecceRecce 10,171km away from BillundMember Posts: 591
    I always see the piece count number as more of a reference on roughly how big/complicated the set is, as the number is never accurate. 

    This is because they never count the extra 1x1 studs, plates, tiles etc that are always present in the set. 
    ambrosius
  • ambrosiusambrosius ChicagoMember Posts: 12
    @SMC The ghost shroud may be part of a small group of exceptions, along with items on display in the box (e.g. large Technic tires) and the Homemaker torsos of the 1970's. I would believe the shroud was counted as a piece even though it came assembled.

    @Recce Lego did make mistakes from time to time, but most official piece counts are accurate if you know what counts as a piece. The Lego Company is a highly organized outfit, and even the "extras" follow a logical plan in most cases.
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